User talk:Zanimum
International Actors What ho, Nick! Just a friendly reminder, if you're planning to create any more Sesamstrasse actor pages, remember we have the International Sesame Street actors category. Any folks you add should go in there, as well as a Sesamstrasse category. Really, the only reason there's a Category:Sesamstraat Actors is because there were enough articles at the time to overwhelm the category. There will be enough for Sesamstrasse when everyone gets added, probably, but in general, it doesn't hurt to wait to create a category until more than one article can fit into it. Thanks! Andrew Leal (talk) 20:13, 28 July 2006 (UTC) Today on Muppet Wiki Hi Nick -- Just so you know, Today on Muppet Wiki is kind of my thing. I might get a day behind on it once in a while, like I did today, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned it. It's kind of a special deal for me, to choose something every day. -- Danny (talk) 21:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC) : Yes, don't worry. I don't plan to change it often. I was just surprised it was two days behind, and didn't want it to wrongly look like the Muppet Wiki was inactive to new visitors. -- Zanimum 14:09, 28 July 2006 (UTC) ::Well, preferably, please don't change it at all. Danny just missed the 26th (the update for a given day often occurs later in the evening), and he sometimes doubles up. Every now and then Scott fills in, but other than that, I don't change it, you don't change it, anonymous people don't change it. Apart from anything else, it encourages newbies to use the nomination system and not just add whatever they want because they like the page. (It still happens, but this cuts down on that). Andrew Leal (talk) 20:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC) Website Plagiarism Hi, Nick. Just a friendly reminder. When copying wholesale from an official website, as you did with Sesame English, either specify the source, "According to the website" before the section, or don't use it at all. We're trying to be careful about such wholesale borrowing unless it's made clear it is borrowing. Also, something I meant to bring up awhile back, a few of the Galli Galli Sim Sim celebrity pages you created have sentences in quotes, but absolutely no information on what article/website you were quoting from. Try to look into that when you can. Thanks! Andrew Leal (talk) 04:51, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Sesame episodes Hi Nick -- I'm glad you're working on the Sesame episodes; that's cool. Just an FYI: When you create a new episode page, we're alphabetizing them with a blank space in front of the episode number, like this: 3163. That's how we get everything in Category:Sesame Street Episodes as one big group, not split up under 0, 1, 2, 3 and 4. Just so you know. -- Danny (talk) 18:13, 20 July 2006 (UTC) : Oh, I didn't realise those were there for a reason. I though it was just to visually break things up. I've just gotten used to the formatting, I had thought segment section was for its title, so I've cleaned up that now. Would it be of use to have category:Sesame Street Episode Guide (no screencaptures)? -- Zanimum 18:24, 20 July 2006 (UTC) ::No, I think it's best just to put an tag on those pages, and then on the talk page, post that the page needs pictures. That way, anybody who feels like adding pictures for that episode will see it there. -- Danny (talk) 19:17, 20 July 2006 (UTC) :::By the way, I did some edits on Episode 3154, to make the segment types consistent with the other Sesame Episode Guide pages. This isn't written anywhere, so obviously what we're calling things is a little obscure. :::So here's the list of segment types: :::*'SCENE 1', etc for Street scenes. (These are the only things on the page to get bolded and/or capitalized.) :::*Muppets, for any insert that involves Muppets -- including songs, Ernie & Bert, Monsterpiece Theater, Muppet & Kid, News Flash, Muppets & celebrities, Muppets & human cast, etc. :::*Cast, for any insert that involves the human cast but not Muppets. Includes songs. :::*Song, for non-Muppet, non-Cast songs. Includes cartoon songs. :::*Cartoon, for non-song cartoon inserts. :::*Film, for non-song film inserts. :::*Celebrity, for inserts that involve celebrities but no Muppets or human cast. :::That probably seems a little arcane, but it's easy once you get used to the 7 types. The basic rule is that Muppets are the most important thing on the show (as far as we're concerned), then the human Cast, then Songs, and then everything else. :::Let me know if you have any questions about this... I'm really glad you're working on these episodes! -- Danny (talk) 19:30, 20 July 2006 (UTC) :::: What's Global Grover, since so much of it is live action? I presume Elmo's World is "Muppets". -- Zanimum 16:44, 21 July 2006 (UTC) :::::Yeah, those are both Muppets. Grover trumps random Guatemalan kids. -- Danny (talk) 17:11, 21 July 2006 (UTC) :::::: LOL. Thanks. -- Zanimum 17:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC) International Hey, Nick! No offense, but I'd appreciate it if you'd lay off the international stuff for now. I appreciate the help, but at the moment, when I'm trying to work on Muppet performer pages, you're making more work for me, uploading undersized images or duplicates (Morales is already on Los Dinosaurios), leaving out a lot of details which I have in notebooks but hadn't put in yet, and frankly, International Bert is a puny mess. So I'd appreciate it if, at least until tomorrow, you'd lay off of the voice actors. Thanks Andrew Leal (talk) 20:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC) : No offence taken. I was already done that day, and I didn't realise you had further notes on those people. -- Zanimum 18:29, 20 July 2006 (UTC) Extra Pictures Hi, Nick -- I saw the note you posted in the edit summary on the Chickens page: "Is there an alternate place that this image could go? The images are getting overwhelming on this page." You're right about the Chickens images -- the general guideline for the wiki is that we only have as many pictures on a page as the text can support. Pictures should be illustrations of something in the text. (We bend that guideline sometimes, but that's the rule of thumb.) So if there's more pictures than there is text, then some of those pictures have to go. You've been adding a bunch of pictures from the Learn at Home book, which is great, but I want to caution you against uploading pictures just because you happen to have them. Some of the pictures are fantastic and have really added to the database, like Harriet and Mr. Macintosh. But some of them are unnecessary, like the ones you added to Lily Tomlin and One of These Things, which are basically just black and white versions of pictures that we already have on the page in color. You've also uploaded some pictures like the Chickens picture or the Thanksgiving picture, where clearly the rationale is just that you have the picture, and you want to find a place for it. You even uploaded one, the Fisherman picture, and then gave up on it, because you don't know where it would belong. Uploading pictures to the wiki to illustrate pages is really helpful, but the wiki shouldn't be the place you store all your Muppet pictures. Scott and I have been collecting Muppet pictures for years; we each have literally thousands of pictures. Some of them turn out to be helpful for the wiki, some of them don't. It's good to be thoughtful about which pictures are going to be helpful, and which ones are just going to sit there. -- Danny (talk) 19:48, 28 June 2006 (UTC) : Yes, I started realising that the uploaded files were "homeless" in many cases, and so I did slow down my uploading compared to the rapid fire I had intended. Is there any images in the message I sent you that are of use? -- Zanimum 20:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC) ::I don't know, dude. I don't really have the patience to look at a dozen thumbnails and check the pages to see if they can be used or not. What I'm suggesting is that you should be thoughtful about that stuff yourself. If you have a picture that you think might be useful, figure out which page it might go on. Look at that page, and see if it needs any more pictures. If there's already plenty of pictures on that page, and your picture doesn't add anything as an illustration, then don't add it. -- Danny (talk) 20:26, 28 June 2006 (UTC) Sesame Book Hey Nick, nice find! Do you know who the illustrators are? -- Scott (talk) 14:07, 27 June 2006 (UTC) : I returned it yesterday to the Toronto Reference Library. I may try to check it out again in a bit, through an intra-library loan, but my Toronto card is due to expire soon. There's quite a few photos in there that I've not seen elsewhere, in my first 19 years of fandom. Primarily the illustrations were from picture books, so I didn't scan them. Now that I look, those other books aren't even in the Muppet Wiki yet, so we could'a used them. Sigh. I know Joe Mathieu was one of the illustrators. -- Zanimum 14:14, 27 June 2006 (UTC) ::That's cool. If you do get it again, even just a list of illustrators would be nice. I may try to track it down myself. Thanks! -- Scott (talk) 14:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC) :::Belay that last request... I just bought a used copy real cheap. So, save your library trip for something else worthwhile :) -- Scott (talk) 19:55, 27 June 2006 (UTC) :::: Where'd you get a copy at such a short notice? Your local used "Parenting books by television series" shop? -- Zanimum 19:58, 27 June 2006 (UTC) :::::Pretty much. aka eBay. -- Scott (talk) 20:02, 27 June 2006 (UTC) :::::: Is there anything you can't find there? Thanks for letting me know. -- Zanimum 20:03, 27 June 2006 (UTC) Performer Templates What ho, Nick! I've been meaning to talk to you about performer templates. Template:Performer4 is a great addition and has already proven useful on multiple pages. I'm skeptical about Template:Performer5, though, at least as presented on Yip Yip Martians, seems a lot less useful. Performer templates are neat and useful ways of presenting information in a consistent location, but when dealing with mass characters like the martians, who had more performers than those listed, it becomes messy, especially when each name has "Unknown" in parentheses. Yes, there's the possibility that date ranges can be found, and but still, more than five performers have played the characters over the years, whether consistently or occasionally (apart from the namesyou currently have in, Sesame Street Unpaved' also cites Jerry Nelson and Richard Hunt as performing martians at various times). That's also partially why I haven't created a page yet for the Fieries from ''Labyrinth (five characters, two to three puppeteers and a voice actor each, though increasingly I'm thinking a table like that used on Elmo's Variants would work best for that). I'm also not sure about Beakie. There's no written rule, but it's sort of been assumed that the template is to be used for main performers (I had a discussion with User:Radionate over this on Luna), and if a minor character had two known performers and possibly more, I'm not sure including their names and an episode number sans links in a template is actually useful. Over at Category talk:Unknown Performer, Peter raised the possibility of a tag or template for minor characters with inconsistent performers, which might be more useful than trying to adopt the standard templates for that. Thoughts? 19:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC) : Yes, in retrospect, I do agree with all of this. I've reverted the Yip-Yips page, and added Jerry and Richard in. Yes, an "inconsistent performer" template would probably work, especially if there was one field for the whole thing, that any info could be filled in to it. -- Zanimum 16:48, 15 June 2006 (UTC) International Sesame guests There was a category for these people, I'm sure, but now it's gone. Am I having false memories, or was it removed for a reason? (I've been adding a few Bollywood actors recently.) -- Zanimum 14:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC) :Yeah, it's at International Celebrities. -- Danny (talk) 14:47, 9 June 2006 (UTC) Sesame Beginnings Hey Nick -- Yay for the Sesame Beginnings books you're adding -- I just watched the DVDs yesterday for the first time. I'm changing the category name to Sesame Beginnings Books, because all of our category names are capitalized. For some reason. -- Danny (talk) 16:59, 29 May 2006 (UTC) : 'K. I've Always Found That A Little Weird, To Be Honest. The books are just things I'd already written for WP, surprised that I hadn't added them to this site earlier. Are the DVDs good? I've not seen them in Canada, granted I haven't been in the preschool section of many video stores lately. On a side note, should Prairie Dawn's Mom be moved to Delta? I don't know what you've done previously with names only in the scripts. -- Zanimum 17:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC) ::Yeah, I can't really explain the category names, it just is what it is. That's a fun note about Delta, I didn't know that. My personal opinion is that it should stay where it is, because all the Sesame Workshop references call her PD's Mom, but obviously have the info on the page itself. But if you want to get other people's opinions on it, then post it on her talk page, and we'll see what happens. -- Danny (talk) 17:15, 29 May 2006 (UTC) ::: I wouldn't have even seen the new name, had it not for Leslie redesigning her site. I think I'll leave as is, I agree that the reference on the page is enough. -- Zanimum 17:37, 29 May 2006 (UTC) ::::Actually, since Leslie Carrara is calling her character Delta on her site, that's definitely means for moving an article officially. I'm going to do it now. -- Scott (talk) 17:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC) ::::: Well yes and no. It could just be that each of the "parent" puppeteers gave their characters nicknames, to save saying "Prairie Dawn's Mom" when discussing things. Maybe the DVDs writers plan to call her Beatrice in the next series of episodes, and Leslie and them are acting seperately, neither one realising that each other decided on a name. -- Zanimum 14:26, 30 May 2006 (UTC) References Ooh, that's nice! Thanks for adding the references code; I'll have to learn how to use that. -- Danny (talk) 16:00, 18 May 2006 (UTC) : No prob. I've been going through some of WP's most instable articles, like Ann Coulter. There's also... (look at the code) to make book references standardised. There's also a news template, but it doesn't seem to work when I tried to make it here. I don't really know if you want to complicate matters too much with these templates, but they are available. -- Zanimum 19:30, 20 May 2006 (UTC) 1776 Hey Nick, what was your source for creating Episode 1776? While there obviously was an episode with that production number, it couldn't have contained the American Revolution skit, as those were produced after 1983, at least 1986 or 87. --Andrew, Andrew Leal (talk) 18:24, 29 April 2006 (UTC) : Whoops. You can pretty much delete the 1776 article, it was just me making wild speculations. Thanks for noticing how wrong I was, and showing me the real article on the segments. -- Zanimum 18:33, 29 April 2006 (UTC) Talk Boxes What ho, Nick. Hope you don't mind, but I put back the talk page on I Don't Want To Live on The Moon. Maybe I should post the issue to current events later, but for a few days more anyway, I think it's worth keeping visible, as the issue hasn't really been settled. --Andrew, Aleal 02:53, 15 February 2006 (UTC) :And just as I type that, Danny weighs in and settles the issue, more or less. Heh. --Andrew, Aleal 02:54, 15 February 2006 (UTC) Hi Nick! Hey man, it's good to see you here! What do you think of the place so far? -- Toughpigs 17:53, 14 Dec 2005 (UTC) :It's amazing how active and knowledgable the people here are. So many of the articles are already the pinnacle of their topic on the web, in what... two or three months? I've been using the celebrities cat to cross-reference the Wikipedia article on Sesame guests, and it's been mindblowing how complete the Muppet Wiki's collection is, including so many appearances I never even imagined existing. BTW, this post on the Muppet Central forums was someone announcing they'd be creating a SS episode guide, I pointed out this site. There's been no response, so I don't know if the guy ever decided to come on over. -- user:zanimum ::Excellent, I'm glad you like it! I'm having so much fun with it. I'm glad you're pointing folks here. There's been a lot of people showing up -- some good, some not, but that's the way of things. There's some folks who've appeared here who I've never met before, and who are just amazing at this stuff. I'm glad it's feeding back into Wikipedia, too. What's new on the Sesame pages there? Is there anything interesting that we could use? -- Danny Toughpigs 14:32, 15 February 2006 (UTC) ::: All of the Muppet/Sesame page have been essentially dead for the last couple of months, other than edits based on MW. Sad to hear there's been bad editors showing up. MW, from my views of it, seemed to be like Wikipedia's early days, back when everything was utopian. You guys all have one great advantage going for you once you're a known bemoth, outside of the Muppet fandom. All of the information is essentially "factual", little room for debate, so lies and other nonsense are easier to ID. Just thinking, the community want to band together and create a press release promoting the project's "official launch" or something. Perhaps send it to free PR distribution websites around the 15000th article or so, or perhaps around September 24, so the media could link it to Jim's b-day. I honestly think you could get lots of positive press. -- user:zanimum ::::That's a good idea! It needs to get a lot more filled out, obviously -- there's a lot of facts here, but not that many actual articles yet. But a little ways down the road, that's a good thought. I'm sorry to hear that Wikipedia's getting troll-y. I've been reading a little about it, and I'm hopeful that they'll figure out a good solution -- maybe requiring everybody to have a user ID. We've even been toying with that idea here, although I don't know if technically we're allowed to. What do you think is going to happen? -- Danny Toughpigs 16:36, 15 February 2006 (UTC) ::::: Yeah, does need to develop out a bit more, but the media generally gets impressed by quality, but mind blown by quantity. But as long as you can find a gimmick, like unofficially linking it with a Muppet event or anniversary, or a round number, you've got yourself an easy in. ::::: As simple and effective as requiring an ID is, it'll never happen. There'll always be purists arguing that "ah! you're taking away our rights". Also, IP addresses tell you roughly who's doing the edits, that's the only way we tracked down the guy who did the w:en:John Seigenthaler Sr. edits. We'll trudge along as is probably. There'll soon be an article validation feature, where once an article reaches a "safe point", it will be frozen. All editing will take place on a seperate page, and periodically things will be updated. ::::: As far as I know, neither Wikia and Wikicities would have a problem with it, as all of the people involved in the company quite likely pro-"user account only" themselves. It should already be built into the hardware, and just require you emailing the tech employee to have him turn it on. Perhaps do a quick vote too to reach a consensus on the change, just so no one can complain later. -- user:zanimum ::::::Well, I've been thinking about it today, and I came up with a Muppet Wiki User Name policy. We started implementing it tonight, giving warning messages to a few active IP addresses. We'll see what happens with it. I think it might cut down on the babysitting. -- Danny Toughpigs 03:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC) That's a curious policy, I quite like it. Two things to take into account: # you'll have to continuously keep track of the contributions pages, # and you'll have to take into account that multiple people might use the same IP address, in companies, universities, and with AOL's non-static IPs. Otherwise, that all sounds pretty cool. You may be on to something I can suggest to Wikipedia! -- user:zanimum